Abolitionist Andrea Ritchie and Howard University Professor Justin Hansford discuss the need for structural change.
We’re joined now by two guests. Andrea Ritchie is a lawyer and organizer who’s worked on policing and criminalization issues for over 30 years. She’s the author of several books, including, most recently,, co-authored with Mariame Kaba. She’s joining us from Detroit. And in Washington, D.C., we’re joined by Justin Hansford. He’s a human rights lawyer, professor at Howard University School of Law, the founder and executive director of the Thurgood Marshall Civil Rights Center.
And so, we really need to think carefully as we move forward: Are we going to continue to pour more money, more power, more resources and more legitimacy into departments that have proven — and policing, that has proven over and over again that incidents like the murder of Tyre Nichols is the rule, not the exception? I think that’s the question that we need to think about right now, and whether the solutions that we’re advancing are, as Professor Hansford was pointing out, going to simply...
In terms of how quickly that happens and when that happens, that is something that is likely to be incremental — just like all big dreams, they don’t happen overnight — but something like traffic stops.
I think also the focus on ending qualified immunity, I think, is one of those sort of interest convergence moments that Professor Hansford was referring to. I just want to really emphasize to people, qualified immunity only comes into play after someone has been harmed, after someone has been killed.
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